John and I review UnMarketing by Scott Stratton and Alison Kramer. We found great ideas that are easily applicable to aviation marketing and, of course, some that we argued with.

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Paula Williams: Welcome to our book club discussion. This month we read UnMarketing. As you know every month we read something about aviation, sales, or marketing.

And this month UnMarketing was actually suggested to us by one of our members. And I read it, first probably in 2010, it was a bunch of years ago. And I have to say its gotten better. [LAUGH]

John Williams: Better than worse.

Paula Williams: Yeah, exactly. So a couple of first impressions about the book.

One of them is that it’s by a couple that worked together which is kind of fun. Of course John and I love that, and they’re funny too. What did you think?

John Williams: Well, yeah, it was okay all the way until page 159. We’ll talk about that later.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Fine, but first impressions is what we’re talking about now. So you didn’t get to 159 before you had a first impression, right?

John Williams: True, however.

Paula Williams: Blah, okay. Well, let me tell you my favorite part of the introduction. This is what made me think these are people that have some philosophical commonality with us.

Anyway, this is Scott Stratten and Alison Kramer, the co-authors of the book. But in the introduction they say, marketing is not a task, marketing is not a department, marketing is not a job. Marketing happens every time you engage or not with your past, present and potential customers. UnMarketing takes it a step further and talks about any time anyone else talks about your company.

All of that is marketing, or UnMarketing as they call it.

John Williams: Yeah, but that’s just talking about corporate stuff that you market every time you talk to somebody

Paula Williams: Yeah, absolutely, any time anybody’s talking about your product or service, whether it’s corporate, or an-

John Williams: No.

Paula Williams: Entrepreneur or anything else.

John Williams: Not even that, just in normal person to person discussions. You’re trying to convince somebody of your position, your thought process, or something.

Paula Williams: That is absolutely true. So yeah, we’re always trying to convey our point of view, just as you did right there, good job.

John Williams: [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] All right, cool, so the first thing that I bookmarked, and you know of course we can go on for hours about this book because I think there’s a lot of really good stuff in there, and some not so great stuff. But one of the points that they make is about how nothing is, everything is changed and nothing is different.

And I think that’s a really good point to make. Because a lot of people are saying, I don’t understand marketing these days, it’s gotten so weird, right?

John Williams: Actually, they may say that, but compared to what I was supposed to have learned in marketing and business school, it’s a lot easier now to understand than it used to be.

Paula Williams: You think?

John Williams: Yeah, and you can spend a whole lot less money now because you know what you’re doing and how to measure.

Paula Williams: That’s true exactly. So some of the things that are different about marketing, of course there’s different tools. There’s social media now that there didn’t used to be.
The Internet has changed the way we do things. There’s a lot more data available and a lot more ways to get and measure and collate and graph and chart all that data, right?

John Williams: Yeah, I mean you can do something and you can track it all the way down to the last click.

Paula Williams: Exactly, I mean when I used to work at Wells Fargo, we used to spend a ton of money on Harvard Business Review, Gartner Group. All kinds of statistical research that now you can get for free, from the social media, right?

John Williams: Well, not only that, but back in the day, you had to have millions to spend to even approach a marketing company.
Because they didn’t really know what they were doing. They were just blasting pictures out there all over billboards, and in papers, and stuff. And they couldn’t track where it came from.

Paula Williams: Right exactly. So there are new methods of targeting. There’s also a new expectation that ads will be targeted.

I mean the average person who gets a irrelevant ad or anything else, I mean it’s not like we are watching the same three channels on network TV and watching soap ads, everybody uses soap. [LAUGH] We’re getting super targeted. We know you’re in this job, and we know you have this hobby, and we know all of these things about you.

So the ads that are gonna show up in your life are a lot more targeted and I think we have that expectation too.

John Williams: And if you keep your WiFi turned on walking down the street, you get zapped as you walk by a new WiFi.

Paula Williams: Exactly, you get zapped by a book store saying, we have a special [LAUGH] that you might like, come on in.

Some of that is intrusive, some of that is actually really cool depending on which side of the desk you’re sitting on as a marketing professional, right?

John Williams: Yeah, absolutely.

Paula Williams: Okay, we also have some different means of connecting with people as John mentioned. The push notifications on some of the messenger services.

There’s Snap Chat [LAUGH] there’s Periscope, there’s all this crazy stuff. And another point that they make in the book, and I totally agree with it, is just because it’s cool, doesn’t mean you should be doing it. A lot of the social media that the kids are using, most of our demographics in the aviation industry are more traditional.

But They’re using tools that their grandkids and kids introduced them to. And I’m talking like, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn which have now become the old standbys or hits. [LAUGH]

John Williams: Everything else is that new cool stuff.

Paula Williams: Everything else is that cool stuff that the cool kids are using.

And just cuz the cool kids are using it doesn’t mean you should jump in and start doing it. Because your target audience is unlikely to be there, they’re likely to be the kids. Okay, so things that are the same principles. If you are a slime ball, spammy moron, and were in the 1950s, you’re going to be a spammy, slime ball moron today, right?

John Williams: Yeah, that’s actually not gonna change.

Paula Williams: Nope. [LAUGH]

John Williams: I mean the old used car sales guy’s still the new used car sales guy.

Paula Williams: Exactly, so good people are good people, bad people are bad people, they just have different ways of showing it, right?

John Williams: Mm-hm.

Paula Williams: Okay, we need the same discipline to measure things as we always have. It’s just a question of whether we’re using Gartner Group or whether we’re using Facebook data, right?

John Williams: Wow, it’s a lot more, a lot more easier, it’s a lot easier.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH]

John Williams: And you can get a lot more granularity.

Paula Williams: Right, absolutely, and cheaper too. You have the same need to spend money wisely. So if you have a marketing budget, you need to still have a marketing budget. The people that tell you this is outside of a marketing budget, that’s crap. Everything needs to be counted, and everything needs to be accounted for.

So we still have that same discipline of spending money wisely and managing the budget, right?

John Williams: Mm-hm.

Paula Williams: And the biggest thing and I think that I think that all comes down to is that we have the same relationships with our customers and our prospects, and our future customers and things like that.

It’s just a question of how do you communicate with them. Is it always on the phone, is it always on person or do we use, sometimes use new tools to continue those same relationships with those same folks. Cool, so good stuff, bad stuff. This should be really reassuring, I think, to folks who may be a little uneasy about how crazy marketing’s gone in the last few years, right?

John Williams: Yeah, really.

Paula Williams: Okay, all right so this is a story that I really loved, Pull and Stay. This is the story about Scott actually went to an art show, Art by the Lake and he said you had a very high intensity of buyers and sellers, all of them motivated.

The art buyers, these were art lovers who had paid to get in. And they’re wandering around admiring paintings and a lot of these people were driving nice cars. You assume they had the resources and everything else, that you’ve got all three qualifying factors. You’ve got money, authority, and need, right?
And they’re wandering around, looking at people’s paintings. And the painters were sitting around in a lot of cases and sometimes the extent of the conversation would be, this is really nice work. And the painter would say, thank you. And the buyer would wander off to the next tent.[LAUGH]

John Williams: Rather than engaging and saying look you notice how the brush strokes here in this color fades into, and they said nothing.

Paula Williams: Right or they could have said something like I’m coming up with some new landscapes next year if you’d like to be the first to see them.
I’d be happy to send you some shots. Or I have other work that isn’t in the booth, that you’d like to see more, I’d be happy to send to you.

John Williams: They’re the art equivalent of a technical person. They’re not into this engaging sales kind of stuff.

Paula Williams: Well, and this is exactly what happens at trade shows right?

John Williams: Exactly.

Paula Williams: You have a technical trade show, a technical people in the booth at a trade show people walk by and they see something cool and they go wow this is really neat stuff. And the guy says-

John Williams: Thank you. [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: Thank you. [LAUGH] The potential buyer wanders to the next booth.
So this story, I think in the book talks about the different ways to prevent this sort of thing, and the different things you can do to really engage and to make sure. Some of these people are gonna be ready to buy right now. Some of these people are going to be six months before they have a space over their sofa that they need a painting for.

Whatever the situation is, you can accommodate it right?

John Williams: It’s the same thing that Sandler Sales teach. 20% of the people you don’t need to sell to, they’re gonna buy.

Paula Williams: Right.

John Williams: 20% of the people will never buy no matter what you do.

Paula Williams: Right.

John Williams: So your job is to make the rest of the 60% of the people you can sell to.

Paula Williams: Right, exactly, so there are lots of ways that you can do this without being pushy or slimy. But just ways to serve potential customers better. Cuz otherwise, they’re gonna go home, they’re gonna look at their house. And they’re gonna say you know, there was something that I saw at that art show.

I don’t remember the name of the artist, but that would look so good right here. And they’re never gonna make the connection, they’re never gonna make the purchase. So you haven’t served them well and they haven’t, the resources to reach back out to you. Okay, cool, all right, next point your website, old school versus new school.

I love what I think is probably Allison that says at the beginning of this chapter, I wish we didn’t have to keep writing this. I wish we could have dropped this out of this version because this should be over by now. It is 2017. People should know how to build a website, right, that is not just a yellow pages ad.

John Williams: Or hire somebody to do it, realize the need to hire somebody to do it.

Paula Williams: Exactly and realizing that more people are likely to go to your website than they are to walk in your front door depending on what type of business you have, right?

John Williams: Mm-hm, and even if they do walk in your front door, they’re gonna go back and look at your website just to validate you.

Paula Williams: Yeah, or to buy in the future and things like that, so there are really two kinds of websites. The old kind is what she’s calling a brochure, things that are static and outdated. It’s amazing how many websites you go to and you look at the footer and it says copyright 2010, right, or 2014 or something like that.
It’s an instant we really don’t care. [LAUGH] I was gonna say something else.

John Williams: That’s right, that works too.

Paula Williams: We really don’t have an interest in investing in our website because we really don’t care enough about our website visitors to give them anything new.

John Williams: And that’s just because they don’t understand how it works these days.

Paula Williams: Exactly, so things get static and outdated, and that instantly impacts your credibility.

John Williams: And there are those people who will say, well that doesn’t work for me. Well, I would beg to differ. I would say that if you are saying it doesn’t work for you, there’s a high probability, probably 0.9 or better that you don’t realize that it’s working on you.

Paula Williams: You are one of those people that says that stuff doesn’t work on me.

John Williams: Exactly, and in one case,

John Williams: I would have to say, even though I wanted to buy, life kept getting in the way. And if these folks hadn’t sent me a post card every month for five months, I would probably still not have purchased an airplane, even though I wanted to.

It was just a matter of damn it, I wanna do something.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Yeah, the priorities of that day, week, month, year get influenced by what you see on a daily basis, and.

John Williams: Yeah, I mean, there was always a reason. I wasn’t, trying to not buy it because I really wanted to buy the dang thing.

Paula Williams: Mm-hm

John Williams: And then finally I said, you know what, heck with it.. And I called them up and said would you take American Express for a down payment? They did and we went on.

Paula Williams: Right, exactly, so another thing that’s a dead giveaway to the old style websites is that it is full of sales pitches, and that it is company centered.

It’s all about the company, as opposed to the new style, which are all about the customer, right.

John Williams: Features versus benefits.

Paula Williams: Yep, we understand that you are like this and you have these problems. And these are situations that you run into, and we can help.

John Williams: This is how we can solve your problem.

Paula Williams: Exactly, right, and another way that they do that is they, have continually updated content and news that’s of interest to that particular audience. So they have a reason to come to the website and a reason to find out a little bit more about the company, even if they’re not interested in buying right this second, right?
Okay, cool, another thing they touched on was comments on your website. And this is something they kind of went back and forth on. I think they may disagree between the two of them. [LAUGH] It happens.

John Williams: Far be it.

Paula Williams: Exactly, comments on a website really give the indication, especially comments on articles and aviation blog posts and things like that, give the impression that we care about what you think about what we just said.
And we’ll respond to you if you have a different experience or whatever. But, if you’re not going to keep up on that and the comment is gonna sit there for six months without anybody ever responding to it, then that does more harm than good.

John Williams: Exactly.

Paula Williams: Okay cool.
So, I’m all in favor of comments. I think they really provide just another way of making it easy for your customers or potential customers to interact with you. And it also gives you a way of showing your work.

John Williams: Well, it’s interesting because that was particularly well for technically product or services.

Paula Williams: Yeah. You look at like Elon Mask’s blog. He writes some very specific plans that I don’t understand but there’s a lot of people that do and their questions are very enlightening and his responses to those questions are even more enlightening.

John Williams: Well, and then you end up with an issue with the product you purchased a while back, and you go to the company’s blog.

And you get into it, and it’s nice to see that’s current, and that people have got similar problems, and you got somebody that knows, see I’ve tried this and I’ve tried that. And this is what worked, this didn’t.

Paula Williams: Mm-hm, absolutely. So that’s an interesting point. And I know we passed a section that you wanted to talk about and I don’t have a slide for it but-

John Williams: Wow.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH]

John Williams: It’s [LAUGH] –

Paula Williams: Or we can come back to it at the end, your choice.

John Williams: Let me see here. Say they addressed this in one place and didn’t come back and say how they’re different. To me that’s a no go.

Paula Williams: Okay.

John Williams: Because what they said was why you can’t learn from millionaires, page 159.

Paula Williams: Okay.

John Williams: And let’s see if I can find the saline point here. And they go through and tell you all these things. The problem with trying to emulate a millionaire is that it isn’t a business. Making money isn’t a career, it’s the result of good business. And they go down to this and they say you found a trap [INAUDIBLE] .

The next thing you know you’re sitting in a hotel conference room three and quote [INAUDIBLE] the only way to get reach is to pay someone to show you how to get rich. The smart cookies reading this will realize that the way that seminar leaders make money is by selling their program to have to make money.
Send me five bucks to me right now, I’ll send you step-by-step instructions on how to make a million dollars, $5 at a time. And what they’re saying here is, exactly what they’re doing.

Paula Williams: They produced a book [CROSSTALK]

John Williams: They produced a book on how to make money.

Paula Williams: Well no, they produced a book on how to serve your customers better and they say that in the introductions.

John Williams: Yeah.

Paula Williams: If you are just trying to make money, then find the easy button. Good luck to you.

John Williams: Yeah there ain’t no such thing.

Paula Williams: Yeah if you want to do it by building relationships with people this will help.
And there are a lot of companies that have done that so you don’t emulate millionaires. To emulate successful companies.

John Williams: But I read that after going through that thing, I said, you know what?

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] There’s a little bit of-

John Williams: What is the difference between what they’re doing and what that’s doing?
The only difference is it’s in more detail.

Paula Williams: That’s true, good point. All right, so call them out on it, John. All right transparency. Authenticity and transparency speaking of such things.

John Williams: Too bad they’re not here to argue with. [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: Well and the interesting thing is I bet you anything Scott Stratton is going to argue with us because he does.
You watch his Twitter account. He loves when people disagree with him and he responds too.

John Williams: So we’ll see.

Paula Williams: Yeah exactly, okay. So authenticity and transparency speaking of such things. Authenticity and transparency.

John Williams: [LAUGH] Might get to talk about it.

Paula Williams: There you go.

John Williams: [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: Errors, we all make them.
How do you prevent and fix them? And, also do you admit to those? I’m gonna say that I have a typo on one of my slides.

John Williams: For heaven forbid. [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: Heaven forbid. All right, so authenticity and transparency. Let’s talk about how much do you disclose. And everybody has a different comfort level with this.

And, my best advice is to stay well within your own comfort level. Never, never, never go out on a limb in public, or in social media, or at a trade show, or at a speaking engagement, or anything else because everything is being recorded now. Nowadays and it’s going to show up somewhere you don’t expect it.

John Williams: And what’s interesting is there’s an old cartoon about going out on a limb.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

John Williams: And you’re standing on the edge of the limb with a saw and you’re sewing off on the wrong side of the limb cuz that’s what’s gonna happen.

Paula Williams: Yeah and I mean if you’re Chick-fil-A and part of your branding is that you’re affiliated with a particular religious or political standpoint.
More power to you that’s great, but for a lot of the rest of us that is not part of what we are here for. Our principles and John and my guiding principle really is to help people sell more products and services and to avoid waste. A lot of the waste that goes on in the aviation industry in marketing.
We’re not going to go out on a limb on politics or religion or anything else anymore than we have to as part of that mission, right?

John Williams: [INAUDIBLE] We will touch tangentially [INAUDIBLE] It, or us, or something.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Exactly, you know, and because that’s not really part of what we want discussed in the public sphere.
And we talk about other things you know, like I hate it when people hand out pens at trade shows wnd we have opinions about stuff. And we have opinions about stuff that’s completely irrelevant to marketing that we don’t mind you knowing [LAUGH].

John Williams: What is even worse than pens is the fishbowl you dropped your business card in and take a chance on winning an iPad.

Paula Williams: Or something generic but we’ll talk about that when we get to the tradeshows. But yeah I mean it’s fine to be opinionated. And it’s fine to be opinionated about controversy of things. But you wanna think that through before you go off on something in a way that you are not comfortable with or that you find out later was disclosed in a reknow that you want expecting it to.
You just have to assume that anything you say in public will be sent to your grandmother and [LAUGH] your first grade teacher [LAUGH] and everybody else. Everything is public nowadays especially.

John Williams: With nauseating video and audio detail.

Paula Williams: Exactly and that can happen in a restaurant. That’s not just exclusive to social media.

John Williams: Exactly.

Paula Williams: So, you know, we just wanna make sure that you know, nobody gets in an uncomfortable situation. And especially is, cuz we’re all what is the word, complicated. [LAUGH] How many sides where personalities and things like that and we don’t necessarily want all of those sides and public display all of the time right?

John Williams: There are some and even I am part of that.

Paula Williams: Right okay. Another thing is ethics. There has been some really public example of people plagiarizing things websites, searches other kinds of things everybody has google this days.

John Williams: You think?

Paula Williams: Yeah. Believe it or not. If you steal something from someone else chances are people will know within 45 seconds that you did.
And is that what you wanna be known for?

John Williams: And particularly because you can actually set software to look for stuff. And in 45 seconds it’s about ride months out there but it takes and you got a ping.

Paula Williams: Right we use some software. I know there are several.
Programs, Copyscape, and others that you can use on your website, so that if anybody copies statistically unlikely strings of characters from your website to somewhere else, you will be notified. And usually a cease and desist is all you need to do for that, and people usually are really embarrassed, but they’re really surprised that they get caught.

John Williams: Mm-hm.

Paula Williams: That’s the weird thing. We live in the age of instant searches. And not just text, but also images, video, and other kinds of things are ways to search for that into.

John Williams: Now you don’t have to search for it, you can set a software to do it for you.

Paula Williams: Exactly. So you want to be authentic. You want to make sure that everything you put out there is original, and that anybody that you are working with is producing original material. So that’s.

John Williams: Yep.

Paula Williams: The thing. And then errors we already talked about, right? [LAUGH] Okay, cool, so let’s talk about video.[LAUGH] I really like Scott’s sizzle reels. And those are, and actually this is where they’re talking about every public speaker has a thing called a Sizzle Reel that they use to promote their public speaking and it’s usually testimonials and clips of them speaking and people talking about them and so on.
What these guys did instead was some short videos, they get right to the point some of the topics that he talks about, and some of the ones that he uses are like “QR Codes Kill Kittens.”  Obviously he has a very strong opinion about QR codes, and how they’re awful.

Millenials rant and the wake up call lady, you know on all of these we’ll put the links to these in the show notes so you can see them. But the point is their very, very short. And they are not the traditional demo reel, right? The only thing that they do is they serve the same purpose in terms of advertising Scott’s availability to speak on particular topics.

And they do a really good job of doing that. But they do it by getting right to the point and telling a great story, right? So instead of rambling about a lot. And we do that in our book club.

John Williams: Ramble?

Paula Williams: Ramble yeah, exactly. [LAUGH] But there are this is four people who know, like, and trust us already and who want to hear what we have to say about a particular book.

And would rather spend half an hour listening to the highlights of a book than actually reading the book itself. This is a different format than a promotional video where you have to get to the point within 45 seconds or 15 seconds in order to keep people’s interest. And the other thing they mentioned about videos to get professional help we needed they spend a thousand bucks on every episode of their podcast.
Because they do video and audio.

John Williams: Subtly.

Paula Williams: Yeah, well and I mean they do live video and.

John Williams: This is live video?

Paula Williams: They do it in a professional studio and things like that. So they have a different degree of need for professional help that.

John Williams: So you’re telling me this is not a professional city yet?

Paula Williams: [COUGH] [LAUGH] We certainly do when we need to, and at some point in the future we’ll probably be spending a 1000 bucks per episode on our videos, which is funny.

John Williams: I probably should figure out how much we do spend, but it’s more than you think.

Paula Williams: Yeah, that’s true.
All right, so trade shows. Do you wanna tell the story?

John Williams: Yeah, okay.

Paula Williams: Or do you want me to?

John Williams: You can.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Great. Okay.

John Williams: They wanna listen to you, not me. [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: I’m sure they like us both. But anyways, Scott was at a trade show.
And I think everyone can relate to this. He was wearing a badge that had the little red ribbon that said student on it, because of the situation he was in at the time [COUGH]. And he was walking around at this trade show, and he was actually looking for a particular kind of software for a company that he was working with and everybody kind of dismissed him because they saw student on his badge.

And they thought okay well he’s not a qualified buyer. And he had people actually kind of physically almost block his path so that he wouldn’t be clogging up their booth, so that they could be talking to the more qualified customers. And that was in one case ,and in another case they didn’t even look up from their iPads or cellphones or whatever.

In another case they were talking to each other and they actively key was interrupting them with this questions. And we’re just kind of routine. The questions is like the second and third day of the trade show. And of course by the second or third day of the trade show, everybody’s grouchy and tired and wanting to go home, and so on.

But anyway, he ended up making a purchase as a result of a contact that he made at that trade show, and it was basically the only person that was not dissing him because of his qualifications or apparent qualifications. Nowadays, you cannot tell from the way someone is dressed or from what’s on their badge.

People jump companies all the time. They may be using a badge from a different company than they actually work for. They may be a student now, but student often get a job.

John Williams: [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Get real jobs, that kinda thing. So, you never wanna discount somebody’s credentials and things like that.

They may know we’re just going into NBAA next week. And there is a lot of things that we’ve talked about in different podcast and other things about how to get people to your trade show booth, how to interact with them and make it more likely that you make more sales from that.

I got that story that was interesting because you can do all that step right and still screw it up just by being dismissive. Not even rude just this was it.

John Williams: Yep.

Paula Williams: All right and then the other thing that they talked about was wasting social media at trade shows.
That’s a great chapter to review just before NBA. That hashtag for NBAA of course is pound NBAA 17. And using those trade show hashtags has done us a whole lot of good. The first time we went to an aviation trade show, we didn’t know anybody, right? At least not before hand.

We, but we spent some time on social media looking at the kind of folks who were gonna be there. We made a lot of friends including Benny Wilson, and Brad McAllister and a few other people that we did not know prior to that show ended up going to a tweetup.

And having Just knowing somebody from prior and then you get to meet them in person and everything else, they’re talking about how you can often coordinate different activities at your booth with people who are going to be at booths near you. You can do a lot of things getting in touch with people prior to the trade show and during the trade show when you say, the next person that shows up at our booth wearing a red shirt that said they found us on Instagram wins a prize.

So, that’s a very cool thing, and of course they say the next person that shows up at our booth wearing a red shirt that says they found us on Instagram, wins an iPad. Which drives me absolutely crazy, right?

John Williams: [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] We think your prizes should be a lot more geared towards your ideal customer.

John Williams: That’s right.

Paula Williams: And being generic. I also really like it when people send things after the trade show instead of just giving things away at the trade show, like giving away pens and stuff, you get a lot of freebie seekers and people like that. Some people give away a lot of stuff, it ends up not being helpful.
So, better use of your trade show budget to send information packages afterwards to people that you actually had a conversation with them and when you are able to make a connection with. All right, so next month is brain surfing. The Top Strategy Minds in Marketing by Heather Lafevre.

I was a little skeptical of this one because of the title. I was thinking great this is like neuropsychology or some weird thing like that. But she needs brain surfing in a sense of couch surfing. She’s spent weeks or months basically living with nine different entrepreneurs and business leaders, and learning everything that they do.

So it’s basically like the NPR concept of embedded. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that podcast where they go live with a particular situation for a while before they start reporting on it. And so the intention, and this is one that I haven’t read. This is unusual.

Usually the books that are in our book club are ones that I have read, but this one was suggested to us and we will see. Jury still out, right?

John Williams: Of course.

Paula Williams: Okay, all right so. Go Sell More Stuff.

John Williams: America needs the business, so says Zig Ziglar.

Paula Williams: Absolutely. Thanks for joining us and have a great day.

John Williams: And we’ll see you next time.

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