One of the best ways to apply new ideas to your marketing is to be a voracious reader, and our Insiders, are, voracious readers!  Joni Schultz, John Williams and I talk about Seth Godin’s bestselling book Tribes, and how it applies to relationship selling and aviation marketing.

Here’s what Amazon says about the book:

Book Club Discussion - TribesSince it was first published almost a decade ago, Seth Godin’s visionary book has helped tens of thousands of leaders turn a scattering of followers into a loyal tribe. If you need to rally fellow employees, customers, investors, believers, hobbyists, or readers around an idea, this book will demystify the process.

It’s human nature to seek out tribes, be they religious, ethnic, economic, political, or even musical (think of the Deadheads).  Now the Internet has eliminated the barriers of geography, cost, and time. Social media gives anyone who wants to make a difference the tools to do so.

With his signature wit and storytelling flair, Godin presents the three steps to building a tribe: the desire to change things, the ability to connect a tribe, and the willingness to lead.

If you think leadership is for other people, think again—leaders come in surprising packages. Consider Joel Spolsky and his international tribe of scary-smart software engineers. Or Gary Vaynerhuck, a wine expert with a devoted following of enthusiasts. Chris Sharma led a tribe of rock climbers up impossible cliff faces, while Mich Mathews, a VP at Microsoft, ran her internal tribe of marketers from her cube in Seattle.

Tribes will make you think—really think—about the opportunities to mobilize an audience that are already at your fingertips. It’s not easy, but it’s easier than you think.

Here’s what WE said about the book!

Transcript – Book Club Discussion – Tribes by Seth Godin


Paula Williams: Welcome to this month’s Book Club Discussion.

This month, we’re discussing Tribes by Seth Godin. And we have John Williams and Joni Schultz with us which is fantastic. And Joni , you’re the president of the Whirly Girls so what’s up with you guys this month?

Joni Schultz: Wow, well, we’re kind of in our slower time. However, its not been slow this year because we just launched our brand new website, which has been challenging, really challenging, yeah.

Because, well, any time you migrate information from one, basically because we are so database-orientated on the back side of our website, it was like a big, and we went from a membership type of platform, to a WordPress platform. And that was huge, and a lot of things didn’t happen, as our prior web master anticipated.

Because that wasn’t really the platform in which she was comfortable or knowledgeable on.

Paula Williams: Right.

Joni Schultz: And so we had a lot of issues. So that’s what we’ve been busy doing. What’s exciting for me is I’m actually the monitor of the information email. When anything every happens like a payment, a renewal, a donation, a question, anything, even the back up comes from people that support and host the website, they send us that information.

But I get to see it all.

Paula Williams: Nice.

Joni Schultz: It is kind of exciting to see membership people renewing and I never saw that before and so it’s exciting.

Paula Williams: That’s fantastic. Well, building a webpage is part of tribal leadership this days, whether you like it or not I guess.

That’s funny. [LAUGH]

Joni Schultz: Yeah, [LAUGH] I mean, I don’t have the knowledge to build websites, but boy, it’s amazing how much you learn through the process of just making sure, it’s a test in communication, let’s put it that way.

Paula Williams: Absolutely, so we’re really glad to have you with us, Joni .

And, of course, I’m Paula Williams and John Williams is here as well. And we are ABCI, and ABCI’s mission is?

John Williams: To assist all people out there in the aviation world to sell more products and services.

Paula Williams: Absolutely, and part of that is, [LAUGH] building a tribe. So let’s start off with just impressions about the book, just general thoughts.

Joni , do you want to go first?

Joni Schultz: I’m out of touch on a lot of things driving at home that is really as much technology we have in our world today, it still goes back to the people. And I think this did a really good presentation of that in reminding us that it is about the people and creating passion and excitement.

Paula Williams: Absolutely. John?

John Williams: My take is that it’s a different set of words to describe the approach to building a high-performing team.

Paula Williams: Great, so your background-

John Williams: Because, basically, it’s what he’s telling you all this people to get together and do that. And because of the way they tend to go about it, that’s what they end with.

Paula Williams: Right, one of the things that I’ve really liked about it was the fact that there is so much resistance to, I’m going to call it relationship selling and in international aviation marketing and yet, it is the essence of sales in aviation. The people who will tell you that they based all of their decisions on transactional information, a A nickel a chicken kind of people, [LAUGH] are exactly the ones that are influenced by what their tribes is doing.

By what their friends and neighbors and the guy in the hangar who owns another airplane, and people they see at aviation conventions and other tribal behavior even though they don’t call it that so.

John Williams: Now what’s interesting is that just occurred to me I have some folks I’m working with whose only marketing is relationship marketing.

Paula Williams: Right.

John Williams: They don’t have any website, they don’t have anything else, no sales.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

John Williams: No ads.

Paula Williams: So some of the really exclusive people.

John Williams: It’s only through relationships. If you don’t know these people, you can’t get in. And if you know these people, they will tell you they are the most expensive.

And if you can pony up, they can turn you on to some other people for a lesser price.

Paula Williams: Absolutely, yeah, and we were just talking with Joni before we went live. And one of the things that I mentioned to Joni is that this was a book that, when we were picking our books this year, and we had actually already picked them by the time that we knew you were going to be part of our group.

But that’s one of the things that just made me smile, is because you actually are the president of an association, which is pretty much the definition of a tribe, right?

Joni Schultz: Yeah, it is.

Paula Williams: All right.

Joni Schultz: It is.

Paula Williams: Okay, so bookmark number one, tribes aren’t so squishy anymore.

This is on page six. Joni , do you have any thoughts about that one?

Joni Schultz: Well, it’s going back to my introduction, what I said about the overall book in general. The part that I outlined, or highlighted, and was my takeaway thing is the sentence that says the real power of tribes has nothing to do with the Internet and everything to do with people.

You don’t need a keyboard to lead. You only need the desire to make something happen. So that was what I noted out of this particular portion of the book. My past or my first aviation position was all about relationships. I was an aviation insurance underwriter and we were all about relationships.

We built lifetime relationships with companies and those businesses, and we did corporate aviation. And so I learned earlier on that it is all about relationships.

Paula Williams: Absolutely.

Joni Schultz: And how you built them.

Paula Williams: John?

John Williams: Well, I disagree with, he had a line in it that says, everyone is a leader, which is absolutely not true.

Everybody may have the ability and even if they have the ability, it doesn’t make them one. Cuz without the followers, there are no leaders.

Paula Williams: Well, I think sometimes people are followers, and sometimes they’re leaders, right?

John Williams: Hm, sometimes, but that’s so rare. You either are a leader, or you are not.

And if you’re not in the position to lead, then you’re not a leader, even if you may have the abilities.

Paula Williams: That’s true. It’s kind of like when we fly into Salt Lake City Airspace, obviously you are the better and more experienced pilot. But I learned to fly in the Salt Lake City Bravo, so we switch off leadership at times because of-

John Williams: That’s aircraft management, that’s not being a leader.

Paula Williams: No, it is. [LAUGH] But we switch off that responsibility because of who knows most about this particular topic, and I think that’s true in a lot of cases. People are followers on topics that they might not know so much about.

We’re members of a lot of different mastermind organizations and we are leaders of others, so-

John Williams: In your particular example where the aircraft [INAUDIBLE] had an aircraft commander, he or she would be the leader.

Paula Williams: True.

Paula Williams: Agreed, and, Joni , just so you know, I underlined exactly the same sentence that you did.

Tribes have nothing to do with the Internet and everything to do with people. People get so hung up on the technology and they forget that it’s all just a tool for relationships, right?

Joni Schultz: Absolutely, because you’re just using, like you say, that tool to create connections really.

Paula Williams: Yeah, absolutely.

Joni Schultz: In that the tribes are connected or the groups are connected by various things whether they are a core mission or a passion or whatever. A love of something.

Paula Williams: Right.

Joni Schultz: Depending on what it is, what kinda group it is.

Paula Williams: Absolutely, so bookmark number 2, The “F” Word on Page 42.

[LAUGH] Is it, where do you think it might be?

Joni Schultz: Yeah, I love that one. [LAUGH] I thought that was funny.

Paula Williams: Right.

Joni Schultz: Okay, I’m sorry, go ahead.

Paula Williams: No, that’s okay. Do you want to go first on that one?

Joni Schultz: Yeah, I had quite a bit of takeaways.

Lets see, first of all, fear is an emotion, no doubt about it, one of the strongest, most hardwired. Yeah, it can seriously overtake every piece of your being. [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: Yep.

Joni Schultz: And I think that it kind of pops up a lot of times when you least expect it I think.

Paula Williams: Right.

Joni Schultz: So you can go from fear to anger to, you can go through the whole gamut. But it’s usually all because of the core emotion of fear.

Paula Williams: Right, that is-

Joni Schultz: That’s my opinion of that, let me see if there’s anything else. Well, actually I have a lot so hold on I missed a page.

I think that in my own life, there’s things that I’ve kind of held back because of fear. Fear of rejection. Fear of failure.

Paula Williams: Mm-hm.

Joni Schultz: Being in a leadership position such as what I am, I want my members to stick around. So I want to lead but yet, I have to be careful about, cuz that’s such a large group of people.

And there’s a lot of different I don’t know views.

Paula Williams: Yeah, that’s gotta be intimidating.

Joni Schultz: It is, and we’re all type A, right? We’re all very strong women.

Paula Williams: Yep.

Joni Schultz: And it starts at the board. Even at the board level and then it goes out to all of our members and I, not to toot my own horn or anything, but when we went and had our early meeting which was just in early March, you had to plan the whole in your meeting.

And I guess the greatest compliment, I try to lead with a servant attitude, okay?

Paula Williams: Yeah.

Joni Schultz: That’s what I always fall back to even though I’m very opinionated.

Paula Williams: Uh-huh.

Joni Schultz: I’m very, for a lot of things. But I always go back to the fact that if I can keep my servant attitude, that maybe perhaps my opinions won’t kind of offend or be overbearing.

Anyway, the greatest compliment was that the lady said to me, you’ve done such a great job in balancing our new members and keeping our elder members happy as well. And to me that was the greatest compliment cuz that was my whole intention. That is a big challenge. It was, and is daily, it’s not like something that’s going to go away, it’s every other decisions that we make.

And so, [LAUGH] it’s not really good for me I don’t know if we agree with everything that is there. From a philosophical standpoint. But it does catch on a lot of great things.

Paula Williams: Right. John?

John Williams: Well, I take the opposite approach.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Of course you do.

Joni Schultz: [LAUGH]

John Williams: Well, I mean the last group of people that I was appointed to lead was about 145 to 150. And then, the kickoff meeting, I told them, they all have supervisors. If they have a problem you make it the problem of your supervisor, and those guys on up the line and if by the time it gets to me they make it my problem if nobody can fix it, I will fix it.

And I didn’t worry about offending people, I didn’t worry about anything else, I just. So, this we’re going to drive forward, we’re going to do this, we can’t fix it whatever it is, we end up line and it gets to me I will fix it.

Paula Williams: Right.

John Williams: But I’m not going to-

Joni Schultz: I need to hang around you. [LAUGH]

John Williams: Well, but I mean I’m not going to dance around somebody stealing because in business I don’t worry about that. They know, when they come to me to run something, to lead something, to get it done, that’s going to happen. It’s going to get done.

And you know what? If somebody’s feelings get hurt, but they get everything accomplished they wanted, they can back down out of that and realize that they did the right thing. That’s just my approach. Not everybody can do that, but that’s how I do it and I haven’t had any issues with pulling that off.

Paula Williams: Right you do tend to get things done. [LAUGH].

John Williams: I absolutely get things done.

Paula Williams: Absolutely. One of the things that I underlined in this chapter was if tribes reward innovation, and innovators are happier, then why isn’t everyone doing it? And I think the reason is the same reason that people pull their punches when they’re selling.

They act like their phone is covered in spiders. They fear rejection, or they fear a response, or they fear people’s feelings and everything else. And I think if you can put all that on the back burner and say here’s the objective people are going to feel how they are going to feel and how they feel about me is none of my business.


John Williams: Well I mean the other thing is that, an example I just stated there was for a very large financial organization over seven states. And during the process, I happened by where I was going to have lunch and I met the president of the company. He asked me what my greatest fear was, to what we were doing.

Paula Williams: Mm-hm

John Williams: And I said, lunch. He said no, no, no, I mean, the project. I said no I was serious my greatest fear is lunch. I said because I have to report to the board of directors every six hours around the clock, and I am not getting this stuff done, and i said I have not having time for lunch.

Paula Williams: And neither is anybody else. [LAUGH]

John Williams: And he thought I was being funny, I said I’m absolutely serious. He said, well sit down and I’ll buy you lunch. I said, okay.

Paula Williams: Yep, brought in keeps up everybody else.

John Williams: And at the end of the thing he said, I would never of believed this would of worked.

I said I had no. I knew it was going to work, there were no doubts. And he was just amazed, but my whole approach is not one of the dance for.

Paula Williams: Right, I think one of the biggest things that people can do is write the word fearless on a sticky note and stick it to your monitor.

What would you do if you had no fear, and do that and-

John Williams: Yeah, I mean, you go forward. And if you make a mistake, do it in style, and then fix it.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] We do that a lot.

John Williams: [LAUGH] But it works.

Paula Williams: True.

John Williams: Because that way you don’t have fear, and if you do, you certainly don’t voice it.

Paula Williams: Absolutely, right. Okay, so page 60, the next bookmark, case studies and they have two of them. One is Cross Fit which is a group with a strong leader. The other is Patients Like Me which is a group with no leader. And I think both of them are really interesting, but Johnny Glick, let’s let you go first again.

Joni Schultz: This is the worst one for me to go first. Okay, so the double cross thing is kind of bizarre to me, but, yeah, they definitely have a tribe.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Of strange people. [LAUGH]

Joni Schultz: Yeah, yeah, I mean, [LAUGH] it kind of takes over their life, but that’s okay.

I don’t know that I really have an opinion on this section at all. Nothing really stuck out or I don’t know. I really didn’t have an opinion. [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: That didn’t strike you as something that you have a strong response to. John?

John Williams: Several airforce bases have instituted a challenge and this has become something of a tribe of people in each space.

The challenge is in, see if I can remember the number, 16 hours, you can lift one ton of weight. So, in other words, if you picked up one pound, then you’d have to do it 4,000 times. So, it’s how many reps, or how much movement of the weight.

So, you could do that, or you could do 100 pounds and do it 400 times. And they gave you 16 hours, because people come in before work and start, and they come in after work to finish. And then, they get a t-shirt at the end.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] You do all this for a t-shirt?

John Williams: Yeah, I lifted a ton of weight.

Paula Williams: God.

John Williams: And they had some people do it in 90 minutes.

Paula Williams: My gosh.

John Williams: But it’s interesting that because then it becomes sort of like a tribe because all these people now are saying I’m with these guys.

Paula Williams: Did this challenging thing.

John Williams: So then put more people on a tribe so it’s just interesting.

Paula Williams: All right. I think that is.

Joni Schultz: So when you say that, the bucket challenge comes to mind. Remember that?

Paula Williams: Yeah, the ALS ice bucket challenge.

Joni Schultz: Yeah, yeah, the ice bucket challenge. [LAUGH] That was kind of a growing tribe, so to speak, or I don’t know what, there was a tribe.

But everybody was doing it. It was like I don’t know if it was, I couldn’t tell if it was the cause or just the reactions that people had that people were wanting to see, I don’t know, I’m not sure.

Paula Williams: Yeah, well, it’s definitely a phenomenon that happens often enough that is not like a fluke.

I mean, you look at these, most cultures have some kind of an ordeal that people have to go through, or young people have to go through, in order to be considered an adult. And a lot of these tribes will leave their kids out all night and have them hunt a deer or whatever it is.

And it gives them a feeling of pride and a feeling of belonging to have accomplished something difficult. And I think people are kinda catching onto that and discovering it. I’ve been trying to figure out how to apply this more specifically to our little tribe. The problem is that everybody’s business is so different and their marketing objectives are so different.

That it’s hard to create a challenge that is really meaningful to everybody. So part of it might be that it’s really, really hard to read one book a month [LAUGH] with everything else that everybody has to do. But It’s interesting that that becomes kind of one of the glues that holds tribes together is those ordeals or those challenges.

Paula Williams: Anything else on that section?

Paula Williams: No? Okay, we’ll carry on.

Joni Schultz: No, not really, I don’t know. It wasn’t very engaging to me. So whatever. [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: Okay. Page 67, the Virtuous Cycle versus the Exclusive Tribe. So it’s kind of like, is bigger better? Or is small and exclusive better?

Joni Schultz: Well, it depends on what the goals are depending on how, I mean, goodness. Let me give you an example. Well, our group is basically, we’re smaller, okay?

Paula Williams: Right.

Joni Schultz: Our goal is not to get large. Well, our goal is to include everybody, not necessarily get large.

Because there’s just not a large population of women who fly helicopters. There isn’t. And then all I want to do in the growth basically is to make sure that everybody that is a helicopter pilot is offered the opportunity.

Paula Williams: Right.

Joni Schultz: And there is such a thing as when you go too small and you’re very connected.

To the next step which is kind of we’re at a pivotal point organization because we’re getting to almost the large tribe.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

Joni Schultz: Because there’s more challenges. There’s also more opportunity. But we need to navigate to keep ourselves as connected as we are while we’re growing the number.

Paula Williams: Right, I think that’s one of the really cool things about your organization is you are not WAI and you are not NBAA. You are very specialized and you don’t have an intention to grow beyond that or serve people who are not your core group. I think that’s cool.

Joni Schultz: Yeah, it is, but it also makes you really evaluate what your mission is. Cuz there’s probably a lot of women who don’t join our organization cuz maybe they don’t like the name?

Paula Williams: Really?

Joni Schultz: Yeah ooh, it doesn’t sound professional to some people.

Paula Williams: It’s too much fun.


Joni Schultz: It is a fun name and at the time if you know the history to the name. I mean, it was given by Mr. Bell to the originator of this organization. And unless you really know that story, there’s many women, I think, that probably get poked fun of because of that name.

Paula Williams: Wow.

Joni Schultz: So I think that there’s some challenges with the name itself. That’s why a balance of putting in international women helicopter pilots beyond it.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

Joni Schultz: See what I’m saying? So people understand the name, because it’s a playful name.

Paula Williams: It is, and it’s funny how the littlest thing can become divisive these days.

That’s crazy.

Joni Schultz: Exactly.

Paula Williams: Yeah, John.

Joni Schultz: It has.

John Williams: So what do they mean, virtuous cycle?

Paula Williams: Virtuous cycle meaning bigger things get bigger. So size for the sake of size. As an example you get 1,000 Facebook followers and then it becomes much, much easier to get more.

There’s kind of a tipping point at which big groups get bigger.

John Williams: I don’t like the neighbor.

Joni Schultz: Am I keeping up?

Paula Williams: Okay.

Joni Schultz: I’m sorry.

John Williams: No, go ahead.

Paula Williams: So any thoughts beyond that?

John Williams: No.

Paula Williams: Okay, cool, yeah, I would say in aviation we’ve always focused on the small and exclusive.

And I think there is a certain number that’s the right number for any particular company or any particular group. And it might be bigger than what you have now. But I don’t think size is ever, we’re not trying to be the airlines. [LAUGH] We’re not trying to serve everybody.

We’re not trying to just pack more people into airplanes or into our business or into our customer set. And so I’d say of the two that would be the direction I lean.

John Williams: Cool.

Paula Williams: Cool, okay [LAUGH] well, that was fascinating. All right, so the next bookmark, every tribe is a media channel, page 106.

Paula Williams: This is more true now than ever. But what do you think, Joni ?

Joni Schultz: Yeah, that’s true, I mean.

Joni Schultz: With the Facebook, everybody has their platform channel.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

Joni Schultz: And of course while Lincoln has the same presence basically as a channel as in page or whatever.

I didn’t get completely towards the end of the book. So I didn’t read this through completely. So, forgive me for that, but I didn’t get completely [CROSSTALK].

Paula Williams: Right, it wasn’t really a sequential book, it wasn’t something that you have to read in order to-

Joni Schultz: Yeah, I didn’t get that far in the poking, I didn’t have time to read these last few bookmark information.

Paula Williams: That’s okay, but I know from your experience of building your website and things and then getting those notifications and having the database behind it and all of the interaction that goes into your website, its kind of become the hub of a tribe nowadays. Something has to be the hub whether it’s the web site or the Facebook page or something, right?

Joni Schultz: Right, and what I find is a lot of people are just using, this is just an observation of other organizations, not ours. But there’s some people that don’t even bother with a website anymore because they use that Facebook page as their only channel basically, I don’t know, have you seen that?

Paula Williams: Yeah, and there is a risk with that, because whenever you’re using somebody’s third-part software, they might change the rules or change the way it works, or entirely disappear your organization if they decide for some reason you have violated their terms of service, which is 75 pages long and nobody’s every read the whole thing.

Joni Schultz: [LAUGH] True.

Paula Williams: You’re depending on something you don’t have control of. That’s the only problem that I have with, I think social media are great for extending your reach, but I don’t think it should ever be the center. I don’t think it should ever be the hub of any tried.

Joni Schultz: Right.

Paula Williams: Yeah, what do you think John?

John Williams: Well, when it comes to social media I’m not at all sure what to think.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] You’re not a fan.

John Williams: Not really.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

John Williams: I’m not quite sure I having read part of the book, but every tribe is a media channel.

Give me a break.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Well, not every media channel is a tribe.

John Williams: No, the other one, first one.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

John Williams: How do they mean that?

Paula Williams: Well, you read the book same as I did, but my interpretation of it given that plus my experience is that if you’re not communicating you don’t have a tribe.

So, you have to have a basis for communication whether that’s email or whether that is a newsletter or whether that is a phone tree, or a web page, or something.

John Williams: To me media channel means has only to do with marketing.

Paula Williams: I disagree I think media can be anything.

It’s any media of communication.

John Williams: You can certainly disagree

Paula Williams: Okay. [LAUGH] Cool. All right, carrying on. Page 146, what, exactly, should you do now? This is at the end of the book. My takeaway from that, I’ll take the liberty of going first, and then asking you guys what you think but-

John Williams: [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: This book was more inspiration than instruction and he doesn’t tell you exactly what you should do now which is kinda the irony of that chapter. In fact, this whole book was kinda along the lines of a couple of the others that we read that were more inspiration than instruction, which is nice, like re-work that we read in January.

It’s great and it gives you some ideas, and if you can apply some of those ideas, that’s great. But it’s not really intended to give you do this now and do this later. But I read this probably four or five years ago, and it was one of the things that kind of brought our company to where we are now, introducing our customers to each other, which is almost unheard of in marketing.

Most marketing companies don’t want their customers to talk to each other, because then they’ll compare notes and they’ll start helping-

Joni Schultz: [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: Each other instead of going to the marketing company and getting money for every little thing. So, it was to me kind of a big inspiration and it did change the way I do business the first time I read it.

But it’s not intended as a manual, right? [LAUGH] [INAUDIBLE] topic in the back of the book but.

John Williams: Well, but he is basically says, you have a choice make it.

Paula Williams: Yeah, are you going to be a leader or are you not? And if you’re not going to be a leader then what business do you have running a company.

John Williams: Well, there are several people in to run our country that are running companies who are not leaders. And I wonder how sometimes that those companies actually survive.

Paula Williams: Yeah, that’s true.

John Williams: But they do, in spite of themselves.

Paula Williams: That is true. Anything to add on that?

Joni Schultz: Well, I do have I guess maybe a comment, and then, perhaps, a question.

Paula Williams: Yeah.

Joni Schultz: My father-in-law, he was an entrepreneur and created a company, basically that no one else was doing. And so, but he always said that it was really difficult. You had an idea for a company, you then went out, perhaps, and got people to make sure it was running effectively after that.

Because entrepreneurs aren’t necessarily good managers.

Paula Williams: Right.

Joni Schultz: They’re just more creative thinking. You know what I’m saying? I mean, what are your, I guess that’s where this comes from. It made me think of that.

John Williams: And he was smart in his approach. The problem now a days is, is that you go hire somebody to run the company for you, while you do what you like.

Is that they will take over and I mean you look at lot of the celebrities who have most money because they have hired managers to manage their money and their professional lives and they get bothered if look at it. And they’ve bought them almost make them bankrupt. That happens a lot of companies this days.

Paula Williams: Right, or Steve Jobs?

Joni Schultz: He didn’t leave the company. He just knew that he needed people that would be better than him in certain areas.

John Williams: I get it.

Joni Schultz: So, he never left the company.

Paula Williams: Totally get that, yeah, exactly. Like Steve Jobs, I mean he was really good at starting things, and then getting his butt kicked out because he would disagreeing with people and getting in the way of the management of the company.

And then, they brought him back because they needed the ideas, they needed his brain and you’ve got to have both.

Joni Schultz: Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. That’s also what might follow in line, but, in fact,, he ended up selling to his competitor and now it’s history, but he was the one that created it.

It was his brainchild, so pretty impressive.

Paula Williams: Yeah, he must have been an amazing guy. That would have been cool to hear that story.

Joni Schultz: Yeah, it was accounts payable auditing because nobody was doing it.

Paula Williams: Wow. [LAUGH]

Joni Schultz: Yeah, pretty cool. His name is Howard Schultz, and it was Howard Schultz and Associates is the company, if you wanted to do a search.

Paula Williams: Interesting, yeah.

Joni Schultz: Now, there’s also a Howard Schultz in the coffee business. [LAUGH] But it’s not that Howard Schultz.

John Williams: [LAUGH]

Paula Williams: You can’t imagine how many John Williamses there are. [LAUGH]

Joni Schultz: [LAUGH] Yeah, exactly.

Paula Williams: Exactly. Okay, so next month you’re getting a surprise instead of marketing above the noise, which is what we were planning to send out, we couldn’t get enough copies of that, so rather than have some people get their copies late and complain-

John Williams: Or not at all.

Paula Williams: Or not at all. We ended up getting Mark Shaffer’s The Content Code which has really good views on Amazon, so it might end up being actually a better choice. Sometimes things work out for a reason, so we’ll see.

John Williams: They always work out for a reason.

Sometimes we don’t know what it is till they’re done.

Paula Williams: Exactly. [LAUGH] So this is one that isn’t.

Joni Schultz: It’s always a lot safer-

Paula Williams: Sorry?

Joni Schultz: Did you say?

John Williams: Mark Schafer.

Joni Schultz: Is his last name Schafer? Mark Schafer, okay.

Paula Williams: Yep, Mark W Schafer the Content Code and it will be coming in the mail this week.

It’s not one that I have read before which is unusual for the book club, usually they’re ones that I’ve read multiple times, but this is one that had really good reviews on Amazon and ran it through a couple people that I know who have read it that really liked it.

So, we’ll see [LAUGH]. We’re taking a chance. All right, so that’s it for this week. So, go sell more stuff, right?

John Williams: American needs the business said Zig Ziglar.

Paula Williams: [LAUGH] Exactly.

Joni Schultz: [LAUGH] Thanks guys.

John Williams: Yeah, thank you for coming in, we’ll talk to you later.

Paula Williams: Good to talk to you.

Joni Schultz: Okay, nice to talk to you. Bye, bye.

} else {

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